IMBA Chapter Program, is it right for FORC?

[SweetSVT99]

I wouldn't say 'lost'. IMBA is doing great things at a higher level to help empower local clubs like ourselves. You may not see it helping us as a local club just yet, but when it's time to fight the good fight to make a truly epic trail system it's critical to have them in our corner. Okay, so we as a club don't get that $28, but that's peanuts compared to the thousands of dollars we're NOT getting right now from charitable donations because donations to FORC are NOT tax deductible.

FORC actually has received thousands of dollars in donations, as well as a $5,000 grant just this year. It has been said that a couple companies would have been willing to donate more if we were 501(c)(3), but regardless of the information that Drew posted earlier, I know FOR A FACT that at least two companies have claimed their donations to FORC on their taxes. What kind of actual "deduction" they received, I have no idea.

[Gunchie]

FORC actually has received thousands of dollars in donations, as well as a $5,000 grant just this year. It has been said that a couple companies would have been willing to donate more if we were 501(c)(3), but regardless of the information that Drew posted earlier, I know FOR A FACT that at least two companies have claimed their donations to FORC on their taxes. What kind of actual "deduction" they received, I have no idea.

Yes, I'm aware of the money we have received, but how many organizations might have done there homework before approaching FORC about donation and never did because we're not 501(c)(3)? Or, if we wanted to pursue donations from organizations, how many would decline because we are not? Unfortunately, as long as we're not an IMBA chapter we will never know those answers. Okay, having 501(c)(3) may not guarantee we get huge donations, but having it does give us more potential to do so. Listen, I'm not saying being an IMBA chapter is right or wrong for FORC since I no longer live in the area, I just wanted to illustrate that we need to get past the 'less returns in membership fees' topic to really see the big picture here.

[SweetSVT99]

Yes, I'm aware of the money we have received, but how many organizations might have done there homework before approaching FORC about donation and never did because we're not 501(c)(3)? Or, if we wanted to pursue donations from organizations, how many would decline because we are not? Unfortunately, as long as we're not an IMBA chapter we will never know those answers. Okay, having 501(c)(3) may not guarantee we get huge donations, but having it does give us more potential to do so. Listen, I'm not saying being an IMBA chapter is right or wrong for FORC since I no longer live in the area, I just wanted to illustrate that we need to get past the 'less returns in membership fees' topic to really see the big picture here.

Like I said, we've had some say that if we were 501, they would have given us more. I have not heard any one of the people who've pursued donations for our races and such say that someone specifically said they were not going to donate because we didn't have it though. Maybe they were the ones that we simply never heard back from, I guess we'll probably never know. The bottom line though, in my mind, is that 501 is not needed for FORC unless we are going to go after big money to build the Bike Park (or any other project) that has been discussed. For the record: Those that have expressed their interest in giving more if we were 501 were going from ~$500 to ~$1500, and while the generosity is MUCH appreciated, would have made or broken us about as the 60%/increased dues probably will.

I do think the membership fees should be part of the discussion, though maybe not the focal point of it. I think 60% of our dues, and the fact that our dues will increase, is something that everyone who intends to vote (hopefully all FORC'ers!) should be aware of. Hopefully all the facts, opinions, arguments for, arguments against, are all being soaked in by those that intend to vote. This is a big decision for FORC, and FORC Membership gets the unique opportunity to make the decision! Many clubs do not afford their membership the ability to actually vote to determine the direction they take!

I'm not arguing for or against it here either, I'm just throwing some facts out there as I know them. There are things I like about the Chapter program, and there are things I don't like.

[Tigris99]

SOrry I missed this months meeting, had a choice of ride or meeting, hehe, chose to ride.

That being said, I have been keeping up on all this and did make last months. Personally I say go for it, simply because what do we have to loose. Club officers are good with it, so club pays in, if its not for us, we leave....

IMBA wouldnt be what it is if there wasnt plenty of good that comes from it. Ok so membership dues go up a bit per year, but whats $50 a year really???? Just over $4 A MONTH!!! I accumulate that in change on the floor of my vehicles every month. Id have no problem personally paying that (or even a little more) and I can bet im on the lower end of the income lvls of club members. Ok so IMBA takes a % of dues, we all pay a little more, then clubs income stays the same give or take from dues.

As for the whole 501 status, being my experiences, that will make a difference in donations the club receives. Companies/people are going to donate more when they can right off the max allowed by the IRS. Gotta look at donations from a business perspective. Tax write-offs. Yes without 501 some is still able to be written off but smaller % is allowed as a deduction. The more that can be written off, the more they are going to donate as it means less income/profit that gets taxed. Thats at least how my friends wife that is an accountant explained it to me when I was doing the whole internet business thing.

[jimithng23]

I know FOR A FACT that at least two companies have claimed their donations to FORC on their taxes. What kind of actual "deduction" they received, I have no idea.

I'm curious as well. I have to believe that they likely filed for the deduction, maybe even received it, but any audit would have those companies owing that deduction back. They may have gotten away with it, but it doesn't seem legit to me. Otherwise, why would 501(c)3 exist if the same deduction can be allowed without it?

In the past 2 meetings, a few main topics - both pro's and con's - have been discussed. I'd like to give my thoughts on the con's here...

"IMBA doesn't help, or care about, the little guys."

IMBA has reached the point where they have the resources available to lobby for our sport in Washington. We're seeing their work with such arduous and daunting tasks in working towards trail access being granted in National Parks - up until this year, mountain bikes were banned from all National Parks. This is no small feat. Out of those that ride off-road, who wouldn't want to contribute a small amount to help this cause? Getting more trail access is just one of the things that IMBA does for mountain bikers in the U.S. Those that say IMBA does nothing simply choose to ignore these efforts. You may not ever meet an IMBA representative but to believe that they do nothing to progress our sport is foolish and ignorant.

Please explain to me why IMBA's work behind the scenes and growing national influence means nothing to FORC.

"The club stands to lose $2000 in membership fees."

Other than the fact this figure is being thrown around as a scare tactic, the reality is yes, FORC will "forfeit" 60% of membership dues. Using SIMPLE MATHEMATICS, let's say FORC has 120 paying members (generous figure, BTW) at the individual cost of $20. That comes out to $2400 in dues collected. With Chapter, the individual dues will rise to $30. That comes out to $3600 but FORC gives 60% back to IMBA, which is $2160 while FORC retains $1440. At these figures, FORC "lost" $960. Currently, the club has somewhere between $8000 and $10000 in the bank and no one is really sure how to spend it. Is $960 worth the benefits the club will receive from IMBA - advocacy, national land access, membership management, 501(c)3 status, etc...?

Being more specific, our Vice President, Eric Perry, took the time to create a spreadsheet using current membership #s. You can view it here. I bring this up because in the December membership meeting, his numbers were called to attention and labeled as, excuse my French, bullsh@t. I believe the mistake was assuming the current 86 paid individual members would be split between the $30 individual and the $50 supporter and the Direct Costs to FORC weren't eliminated from net membership income. Using a worst-case scenario approach, assume FORC loses 10% of paid members due to the increase in membership dues and gains not a single membership through IMBA. At those membership numbers, FORC would "forfeit" $1066 to IMBA under the Chapter Program. I remind you, the Sylvan Island Stampede has generated north of $4k annually and, FORC plans on adding another race in 2013.

Please explain to me why you may think "losing" $1066 is not worth it.

"There's no more land to do anything with"

Completely and utterly false. Currently I'm in discussions with 2 different cities on the proposal of building a Bike Park facility for our *community.* There's plenty of land. However, it is very expensive so this is no easy task; it was never implied as such. But, steps are being taken and waters are being tested. Why would we not see what's available? The fact of the matter is - interest lies within our local government to progress recreational activities within our community, and FORC has the opportunity to be an integral part of it.

Please explain to me why this club would *not* want to explore and pursue this.

"I don't want this club to change what it's all about"

Nor do I, and I believe every single member doesn't want to see this club change. FORC is pretty friggin awesome the way it is right now, so why do anything different? I have absolutely zero doubt this club will cease putting on races, events, away rides, group rides, night rides, Moontower Parties, Winter Parties, Pool Parties, MTB 101's, or any other shenanigans we've done in the past simply because the club became an IMBA Chapter. I fail to see how pursuing donations for projects, fundraising for various events, or working towards land access would suddenly change any of this. Progressing our club, progressing our sport, and progressing our "facilities" should be at the top of our priority list. Chapter offers a stronger platform to operate from. In doing these things, I believe the thought is the club would be consumed with these efforts and I completely disagree. Everything this club has done up to this point, have those efforts taken away from any shenanigans? I see small committees being formed (3-5) people to focus their energy on fundraising or politicking with local officials for land access, etc. In what way would these efforts dissolve the ability to carry out any of the activities I described above?

Please explain to me how Chapter status would completely change FORC's identity.

So, those are the biggest arguments I've heard and I've addressed each of them as objectively as I know how.

Since I've spent a large amount of my free time researching this program, weeding through the legalese, figuring out the pro's and con's, tirelessly attempting to explain the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, and ultimately reaching my personal conclusion - which is no mystery - I would like someone out there to convince me otherwise.

Convince me that Chapter is not the way FORC should go, and why. Take the time and put forth the effort to prove me wrong.