Trail status postings

[Jones]

Guys,

Modify the home page so that the trail closing info is time stamped. That way we know that you didnt' bother to update it for three days before we drive all the way out to SCP. They rarely answer the phone out there so take the onus and keep us updated.

Because of FORC, SCP is now shut down when wet, when in the past, it was always open and up to our discretion to ride. You wanted it, you got it, now be responsible for accurately displaying the open or closed info. I'm not saying its a bad thing, I've seen horses and bikes tear that place up... but I have zero confidence in your web page as to whether I am going to get to ride when I get out there or if your page was wrong.

This was always a pain in the @$$ at Sugarbottom after Ranger Rick handed over control of the trails to ICORR.

Its Thursday, its gorgeous out, I want to ride and nobody at SCP answers and your friggin sign says closed. Hasn't rained for days guys. Little help?

One annoyed Titus riding girl.

Ginger:mad:

[SweetSVT99]

Wow, some first post.

First of all, we very rarely "just don't bother to update the website". Typically when we get word, it is updated within minutes.

Secondly, FORC had NOTHING to do with SCP being closed. No, it wasn't "up to your descretion" when you could ride out there, they just didn't enforce the rule as much as they do now. The conservation board has, for many years, had the same policy about trail closure.

Third: We are well aware that it hasn't rained in a few days. If you look around the forum, you will notice other people (myself included) complaining the trails are close for far too long after rain. Everytime I've ridden out there (a whole 3 times this year...) the trails have been dusty. Remember that trail closure policy I mentioned above? There's your reason...the policy states that the trail system has to be open for all users or they are all closed. Currently, there are some drainage issues keeping the horse trails closed. Hopefully this policy can be amended in the future, but these things take time.

I have personally called out there many times, and have only had one day in which they were slow answering the phones. Also, if you look at our Trail Page for ScoCoPa (http://www.qcforc.org/index.php?opti...d=48&Itemid=57) you will see a link to the Scott County Conservation Website: http://www.scottcountyiowa.com/conservation/

As I'm writing this, I can't help but notice their own website clearly says:
"
Bike & Equestrian Trails Are Closed!

Scott County Park mountain bike & equestrian trails are closed. If you would like additional information, please call Scott County Park at (563) 328-3282 ext 1"

So how is this FORC's fault again?

[Jones]

The park wanted nothing to do with a "mountain bike" trail out there, and it was never closed or enforced. Period. It was an equestrian trail, they "tolerated" the bikes and we all got along.

When forc was granted stewardship of the trails, thats when the enforcement began. Previously the only enforcement from rangers was if you crossed the road into the nature trails.

Like it or not, Forc brought about this unfortunate situation. As I said before, it isn't necessarily bad. But it is what it is.

You can't tell me and the others who have riden out there for the past 15-20 years that the trail would be closed today if there was no Forc involvement. Right I understand the rangers decide when its closed. The point is, before you, the rangers didn't give a crap and they certainly wouldn't have closed the trail.

And yes... trails were a mess, horses tore up the hills on wet and dry days. There is no argument there. We cleaned the trail ourselves, we survived.

The high areas of the park were always dry, around the pine trees. There we could always string together a one mile lap for training.

ICORR had a hotline with a daily updated greeting, we knew that the trail message was current. You ignored my point, we have no idea that you are maintaining that on your page. Riders shouldn't have to guess whether you are up to date, figure out how to get ahold of a body at SCP, etc. etc.

Please try to tell me I'm wrong. I grew up on those trails, I made and maintained a lot of them (pre-Forc). My dad and I cut many a fallen tree off those trails for many years.

Ginger

[AG]

Before this gets out of hand, I just got off the phone with the park manager. As we have said in the past, one of the main problems for keeping the trails closed so long is due to issues with the horse trails. They are currently tiling and rerouting most of the bad spots this week. This will no doubt help open trails faster after big rains. In the recent week they had a 3" rain Friday and another 1" rain this Tuesday. I don't know of any trail system that can handle that much rain and be open in less than 2 days.
Up until FORC, Park policy stated that "There is no single track at SCP". So what that means, If anyone was caught on single track trails they could be subject to fines or removal from the park. This was one 40 year old policy that I am proud to say I had a hand in changing. There is no doubt a long learning curve that both the Park and FORC have been working on since FORC gained access to the Park.
Since FORC started out there as pre our agreement we have worked with the rangers and Conservation Board to create a (currently) 7 mile, no horse single track trail system, with another 2 mile loop well under way. The over all plan is to have 12 to 15 miles in that section alone. Where else can you go in the Quad Cities for that kind of ride?

SO if you want to go back to the days with a "1 mile loop" I have to say I just don't understand...

I have said in the past be patient. Now that the Rangers and the Conservation Board have given us there blessing and with the new policies in place (and some still being changed), SCP will be the best place to ride with in 6 or more hours of the QC.

Your Scott County Park Trail Steward, Aaron

[SweetSVT99]

The park wanted nothing to do with a "mountain bike" trail out there, and it was never closed or enforced. Period. It was an equestrian trail, they "tolerated" the bikes and we all got along.

When forc was granted stewardship of the trails, thats when the enforcement began. Previously the only enforcement from rangers was if you crossed the road into the nature trails.

Like it or not, Forc brought about this unfortunate situation. As I said before, it isn't necessarily bad. But it is what it is.

You can't tell me and the others who have riden out there for the past 15-20 years that the trail would be closed today if there was no Forc involvement. Right I understand the rangers decide when its closed. The point is, before you, the rangers didn't give a crap and they certainly wouldn't have closed the trail.

And yes... trails were a mess, horses tore up the hills on wet and dry days. There is no argument there. We cleaned the trail ourselves, we survived.

The high areas of the park were always dry, around the pine trees. There we could always string together a one mile lap for training.

ICORR had a hotline with a daily updated greeting, we knew that the trail message was current. You ignored my point, we have no idea that you are maintaining that on your page. Riders shouldn't have to guess whether you are up to date, figure out how to get ahold of a body at SCP, etc. etc.

Please try to tell me I'm wrong. I grew up on those trails, I made and maintained a lot of them (pre-Forc). My dad and I cut many a fallen tree off those trails for many years.

Ginger

I'm glad that you and you dad were working on and riding illegal rogue trail, nice work. I'm not sure I would admit that in a public forum.

I didn't ignore your "point". If you visit the page, you clearly see that it gets changed. Since we don't make the call out there, we certainly cannot guarantee it is always accurate. Hence the reason why there is a number and a website for people to verify before going out there.

I gave you the facts as I see them, the Steward has contributed. This thread is done.

[SweetSVT99]

Reopened by request...may not last long though.

[jimithng23]

I'm going to have to simmer down and have a beer to make an intelligent post before my fingers begin typing words that aren't allowed to be spoken around humans under the age of 17.........

[Blaine parketon]

My two sense.......
All great trail systems start off with a bit of politicking and patience. FORC has provided us with an opportunity to have another great trail system within the QCA. Where I previously lived (Ocala, FL check out omba.org) and rode trails that are part of the coveted "epic ride" by mtb mags, yet 10 years prior they were nothing more than a few single track loops and a dirt parking lot for a trailhead. These things take time, patients, and sweat equity from dedicated members. So quit your griping, thank the trail stewards for their hard work, and get on the end of a shovel!

[Home Grown Turtle]

I'm not sure I'm going to give any value to a trail poacher's opinion.

As a person who started riding off road in '92, here is my two cents.

15 years ago there was no significant trail system within 45 minutes of the Quad Cities. Period. I can deal with making a phone call to SCP to determine the status of the trails. Before FORC's involvement in Scott County Park, the trails were not maintained, they were more of a fun little loop with no subsequent length. It is now a full system, that is maintained very well by dedicated people who are very under appreciated. Furthermore, in addition to SCP, there are efforts in place to continue to maintain other trail systems in the QC area. FORC has been a FORCe in opening trail systems to mountain bikers in the QC.

As a guy who drove two to three times a week to Sugar Bottom for years just to ride organized trails, I have to say... stop your bitching. Make the phone call. How can a club be responsible for your lazy butt? I would rather ride the trails out there now compared to the "good old days", when it wasn't maintained, when it wasn't legal to ride singletrack, when the park didn't care about the quality of the trail system or the efforts of volunteers. If you seriously have time to complain about a time stamp on the web site, you need to ride more.

For your reference, the bike path almost never closes, but when it does, the cities don't post it either. I expect you will contact them also.

[Jones]

I brought my voice to this forum to bring attention to the ambiguity of your trail open/closed notice. I pointed out that this was never an issue before forc took over. I stand by my opinion that if you are taking responsibility for the trail, which creates the maintained environment which will have to endure trail closures... then you should do a much better job of communicating that the trails are open. Ask yourselves, did you ever call the ICORR hotline, or did you call the Corps of Engineers to see if Sugar Bottom was open?

I didn't attack any of you personally, I was very blunt towards Forc. The comment from your trail steward was the only one representative of a club, the rest of you went on a personal attack against me. Calling me a "poacher"... WTF boys? We took care of the 5 miles of trail out there long before Forc got involved. Listen to yourselves, you are the ones bitching because I dare rattle the Forc nest. If it wasn't for "poachers" like me, that trail system would have disolved into the woods and disappeared.

May I remind you all that the Cannon loop that follows the creek on the west side of the trail, below the pine trees was cut in by some boy scout troup leader as a renagade trail. How many of you know that? Is he a poacher, if so, shouldn't you rehab that loop as it was cut without the ranger's approval? Don't be so quick to throw stones at me boys. Again, you are benefitting from the labors of others.

The comment about one mile of trail was taken out of context, I was saying that even on wet days, those of us that knew the original trail had short 1 mile loops that we could do laps on (15-20 miles) without damaging the trail. Well, that was until you rerouted the trails east of the pine trees.

I applaud anyone that puts in the effort to create more singletrack out there. To the comment that singletrack has always been illegal out there... don't quote 40 year old rules that contradict everything the fleet of rangers and weekend rangers have told us for the past 20 years. They have always told us, we can ride anything on the equestrian side of the park, but crossing the road you enter the nature trail and that was expressly forbidden and signage was there as well. The rangers are good guys and we've had many a picnic with them after our rides. They grew fond of us while they had great disdain for the QCBC guys that would blow through the park roads at high speed.

Insult me all you want, as you are obviously the voices of Forc.

[Chief Illiniwek]

WOW! As they say Ginger "don't go away mad, just go away"!

JB

[Jazn]

All I can say is WOW! You know what I do when Scott is closed? Keep driving to Sunderbruch!!!

[Jones]

Dear Salsa rider, you should be embarassed by a comment like that, considering you are a board member. Read my original post... your people flamed me.

[PAGS]

Dear Salsa rider, you should be embarassed by a comment like that, considering you are a board member. Read my original post... your people flamed me.

Dear Ginger,

It is a shame that your original post was so negative and belligerent toward FORC. There are better ways to express your opinions without pissing everyone off. These same people are the ones who would help pick you up off the trail and dust you off and get you on your way.

Your Posts = Epic Fail

[forcmeister]

So, Ginger, you've been this great mountain biker all these years, what have you done to help promote the sport? We've been at this for the last twelve years, working to turn around the negative image that mountain bikers have been given. That we are not just a bunch of Mountaindew drinking punks that are going to go out and tear up the trails and have no respect for the land. And due to those efforts we now have several trails in this area, a couple great races a year and people coming from all over to ride are trails
My advice to you would be, if you think you can do something better, than do it, don't sit there and complain about it. If you enjoy mountain biking as much as it sounds like you do and there is something that you think that we cound do better, don't just start casting stones at the ones that are tryng to help, give a hand, get invoved.

FM

[Rage]

Read my original post... your people flamed me.

Good suggestion, let's do that:

Because of FORC, SCP is now shut down when wet, when in the past, it was always open and up to our discretion to ride. You wanted it, you got it, now be responsible for accurately displaying the open or closed info.
. . . .
This was always a pain in the @$$ at Sugarbottom after Ranger Rick handed over control of the trails to ICORR.

Ginger, it's pretty clear you wanted to pick a fight with the club, and you successfully found one. It's unfortunate, but understandable, that this type of diatribe quickly escalates to personal attacks. Understandable, because so many people have struggled for many years to gain access to develop and promote mountain bike trails in this area, and attacks on those efforts are taken as personal attacks. Unfortunate, because rather than become another voice of support for the continued development of our sport, you have positioned yourself as longing for the return of poorly designed and maintained trails built without the support of public land managers.

If you spent the time to take a quick look at our forum threads, you would find that we have not been thrilled at the trail opening delays at SCP this year either. And you also would find that we've been working with the Rangers there to improve the situation, as well as improve our communication of trail status. Positive reinforcement from trail users outside of our club is very helpful to bring about this change; negative campaigning is not.

I think you've missed a critical point regarding Sugar Bottom. Yes, it's a bummer when the trails are closed due to conditions, and it's an inconvenience to call to find this status, but Sugar Bottom remains one of the best riding destinations in this area despite the large number of riders that use it precisely because they manage the trails. We expect the Quad Cities to soon be recognized as a first-class riding destination in this area because of our well designed, maintained, and managed mountain bike trails.

My suggestion: cool off, think about it, come help make a difference.

PM me anytime, or dropa dime: 781-1217.
Rg.

[SweetSVT99]

I brought my voice to this forum to bring attention to the ambiguity of your trail open/closed notice. I pointed out that this was never an issue before forc took over. I stand by my opinion that if you are taking responsibility for the trail, which creates the maintained environment which will have to endure trail closures... then you should do a much better job of communicating that the trails are open. Ask yourselves, did you ever call the ICORR hotline, or did you call the Corps of Engineers to see if Sugar Bottom was open?

I didn't attack any of you personally, I was very blunt towards Forc. The comment from your trail steward was the only one representative of a club, the rest of you went on a personal attack against me. Calling me a "poacher"... WTF boys? We took care of the 5 miles of trail out there long before Forc got involved. Listen to yourselves, you are the ones bitching because I dare rattle the Forc nest. If it wasn't for "poachers" like me, that trail system would have disolved into the woods and disappeared.

May I remind you all that the Cannon loop that follows the creek on the west side of the trail, below the pine trees was cut in by some boy scout troup leader as a renagade trail. How many of you know that? Is he a poacher, if so, shouldn't you rehab that loop as it was cut without the ranger's approval? Don't be so quick to throw stones at me boys. Again, you are benefitting from the labors of others.

The comment about one mile of trail was taken out of context, I was saying that even on wet days, those of us that knew the original trail had short 1 mile loops that we could do laps on (15-20 miles) without damaging the trail. Well, that was until you rerouted the trails east of the pine trees.

I applaud anyone that puts in the effort to create more singletrack out there. To the comment that singletrack has always been illegal out there... don't quote 40 year old rules that contradict everything the fleet of rangers and weekend rangers have told us for the past 20 years. They have always told us, we can ride anything on the equestrian side of the park, but crossing the road you enter the nature trail and that was expressly forbidden and signage was there as well. The rangers are good guys and we've had many a picnic with them after our rides. They grew fond of us while they had great disdain for the QCBC guys that would blow through the park roads at high speed.

Insult me all you want, as you are obviously the voices of Forc.

I guess some people get it, and some don't.

Re-read your first post. The nature of that post, and each one since, has not been to simply bring our trail closure system to our attention.

You however did:

1) TELL me what I NEED to do with the sign on the frontpage.

"Modify the home page so that the trail closing info is time stamped"

.
That isn't a suggestion, it's an order. I can and will consider suggestions, and never once in my response to you did I say it was a bad one. I did say, if you look around the forum and the trail page, it states many times to look on their website and to be 100% sure, call ScoCoPa's number.

2)

That way we know that you didnt' bother to update it for three days before we drive all the way out to SCP

Really? How about you just call the number to be sure. Again, as state many times, we don't control the trail status.

3)

Because of FORC, SCP is now shut down when wet, when in the past, it was always open and up to our discretion to ride.

Now here's where we are starting to get really ridiculous. "Because of FORC". Yep...it's all our fault.

4)

You wanted it, you got it, now be responsible for accurately displaying the open or closed info

WE DON'T TRY TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ACCURATLY DISPLAYING THE STATUS. How hard is it to understand? It is a good starting point, but call ScoCoPa if you are unsure!

5)

Its Thursday, its gorgeous out, I want to ride and nobody at SCP answers and your friggin sign says closed. Hasn't rained for days guys. Little help

Our sign said closed, because they were....CLOSED. I'm sure they weren't answering because they were fielding calls from people like you complaining all day.

6)

the rest of you went on a personal attack against me. Calling me a "poacher"

Nobody went on a personal attack against you. You were called a poacher, because you WERE (are?) a poacher.

7)

below the pine trees was cut in by some boy scout troup leader as a renagade trail

Most people that have posted in this thread so far are very well aware who cut in that loop, and a few others. Admittedly, that person was a poacher as well and HE has seen the error of his ways.

The bottom line here is that we are on the same side. You claim you didn't attack any of us, but you did. If you just came here and politely requested we put time stamps on the trail status, that would have been cool...I don't think it's a bad idea and wouldn't be that difficult to implement. You didn't...you came here and blamed us that ScoCoPa's rangers enforce the rules that have probably been in place longer than most of us have owned a mountain bike.

By the way, they have updated their website, it appears the trails are open. I didn't call to confirm however. As soon as I confirm, I will update the website.