Revival

[Vittetoe761]

Last night in the monthly meeting Drew H. mentioned that the folks at Loud Thunder may be interested in allowing FORC to build a separate hiking/biking trail system (non-equestrian) in their park. Because of this, I have had a mild case of LT Fever today.

After reading through some of the old threads and discussions about FORC's involvement at Loud Thunder, it seems as though the general consensus was that we didn't want to go back to the park until we: A- could build a separate trail system from the equestrians; and B- would have the capacity in labor force to do a good job building and maintaining the trails. Based on what we heard at last night's meeting, it seems as though our first requirement is a real possibility.

I've never ridden at Loud Thunder so I don't have a ton of knowledge about the park, but I have looked at satellite images & terrain maps of the area a time or two and definitely like what I see as far as potential for an awesome trail system. But as we all know, awesome trail systems are a lot of work; both to build and maintain, especially when there is room for 20-30 miles of trails.

So I guess what I wanted to throw out for discussion is: Do we have enough manpower and/or interest to pursue the Loud Thunder project while the door is open?

[dgw2jr]

I rode it back in June. The heat and humidity made it more difficult than it really was . It felt like a giant Sunderbruch but with pine trees here and there. The trails are only really torn up where it is steep from horses trying to stop and get going again at the creek crossings. The trail goes straight up and down the fall line at the creek crossings. If the trail went along the side of the ravines it would make for better riding, less hike-a-bike, more sustainable etc etc.

I've seen a lot of fat bike tracks out there in the winter time. Snow covers up the bumpy horse tracks pretty well I guess. You should go for a hike out there when it dries out.

[Rage]

I think Loud Thunder has the potential to have the best trails in the area - tremendous potential. Could pursue other groups for added assistance (thinking scouts, hiking club, etc). I think you'd need to have 6 core people take the reigns with at least 2 with accomplished trail building experience. Big commitment, but big payback.

Rg.

[Chief Illiniwek]

Lot's of digging, lots of time, and again do we have enough people willing to step up and make it happen. If you stop and think it took us about 3.5 years to complete the work at Illiniwek and there was a lot of existing trail already there. The terrain at LT is a lot like Illiniwek and this would be all new trail so to get 20-30 miles of trail would mean lots of hours over many years.
I for one would love to see this happen, as Rage said "tremendous potential" and one more big step for Mountain biking in the local area. We need to meet with the county and other group as Rage mentioned and see if we can make a go of it. Maybe by making it more of a community thing and not just a FORC thing we can get the ball rolling faster and get it done.

JB

[jJohnson]

I do work for the Boy Scouts's mountain bikes and they've expressed interest in at least learning how to properly build trail and I'm sure they would be willing to actually work on the trail. I have contact info somewhere if/when the time comes.

[Vittetoe761]

You guys are right, it would take many years to get 20 or 30 miles of trails built...not gonna happen over night. The good thing is that we don't need to build 20-30 miles of trail in order to enjoy the park. If we get this thing moving over the next couple years and decide we don't have the capacity for more trail, we can pull back into a maintenance mode similar our current systems...but we would at least have our foot in the door and could build more trails at some point down the road.

[dgw2jr]

I do work for the Boy Scouts's mountain bikes and they've expressed interest in at least learning how to properly build trail and I'm sure they would be willing to actually work on the trail. I have contact info somewhere if/when the time comes.

Scouts have a presence in the east side of the park. A scout camp of considerable size. Cabins and all. I'm sure they wouldn't mind having some awesome trails to hike and bike.

[jimithng23]

HUGE potential.

TONS of work - planning, building, politicking....

I'm really excited about this opportunity.

[Surge]

Working at WBP has been slow moving due to the amount of clearning we've been having to do even though the soil is super easy to work with. I think it would be a lot easier for us to build all these trails if we could get access to a bobcat or a mini-excavator. We've seen the awesome stuff that can be built with these, eg. Copper Harbor (they were scattered all over the place). I think renting or even building relationships with companies who may want to donate/lend some equipment to us would be beneficial. The potential is definitely there at LT, but it would be a lot easier if we had some heavy equipment. Or we could get IMBA to buit it for us.....

[Vittetoe761]

I am willing to be one of the "core" people that Rage mentioned earlier. My only trail building experience is from the handful of workdays I participated in this year, so I don't qualify for the "accomplished trail builder" category but I have no qualms with working hard and learning the ropes. The political side of things sounds less fun, but I would be willing to take part in that process as well...all part of the game, right!?

It seems like the response is positive so far...keep it coming! I guess my next question is: Does anyone out there NOT want this to happen?

[SugarShane]

I'm all in on this! I will dedicate as much time as I can.

[jimithng23]

Hiring IMBA to build trail for us will be very, very expensive. In fact, any pro trail builder is going to charge a very large premium.

I've been exploring using machines; love the idea and I've found people willing to operate and train a few people on how to use the equipment.

[Vittetoe761]

A quick chat with Uncle Google tells me that Bobcat of the Quad Cities will rent a 418 or 323 mini excavator for $150/day, $225/weekend, $450/week, or $1350/month. Seems fairly reasonable to me.

I would imagine we could get quite proficient operating one in the matter of a couple weekends and then could really make some hay building trail...especially if we go through and do rough clearing ahead of time. One has to wonder...would the county be OK with us operating an excavator in their forest preserve?

[jimithng23]

..would the county be OK with us operating an excavator in their forest preserve?

that's all part of the plan/proposal/politics of it all.

Davenport has given me/us the green light for this type of trail building at SBP...this trust/relationship, along with the relationship we're/Drew has built with RICO @ IFP are fantastic building blocks towards reaching our goals at LT.

[Vittetoe761]

Right. It is good to hear that Davenport has given us the green light...gives the idea some legitimacy anyways. I wouldn't count on being able to build with a mini-ex right away though, would probably take some time to reach that comfort level with RICO.

[DH001]

I am pretty sure that everyone is in favor of pursuing this project (I am). There are significant obstacles we are going to need to overcome though to do it.

Such as:

• Obtain 501.C3 (federal tax exempt) status so we are eligible for a larger number of grants (almost all grants I have come across require this as a prerequisite). The expenses we are going to incur from the project will be significantly greater than what we have dealt with before and we are going to need to find more avenues to obtain funding.
  
• Wrap up major projects at other trail systems so we can focus our efforts on LT. I think Sundebruch has some projects in the works, Westbrook is still an ongoing project (and will be for a few years), Illiniwek has a few minor projects left, Sylvan is going to need a bunch of work to reestablish the trails once the new bridge is completed, and Scott County Park has a skills park that needs built. We already have a lot on our plate that needs to be addressed before starting another project.
  
• Increase manpower. Whether that means using machines or recruiting other groups to help, we will definitly need more muscle to complete this project in a reasonable amount of time.
  
• Serious commitments from those who want to be involved, our membership base, and the local community. The project will fail if only a handful of people are expected to do all the work.

That being said, I am willing to be one of the core people for this project when the time comes.

As far as using machines, we would need to demonstrate that machine built trail would not have significant impacts on the flora/fauna or natural aspect of the the property as it is intended to be a Forest Preserve.

[Vittetoe761]

Good call on the 501.C3 status. I know there was some discussion on that a year ago now when the IMBA Chapter idea was being kicked around.

Has any progress been made towards achieving this status?

[DH001]

Good call on the 501.C3 status. I know there was some discussion on that a year ago now when the IMBA Chapter idea was being kicked around.

Has any progress been made towards achieving this status?

I don't believe much progress has been made on 501.c3 or IMBA Chapter. I would like to see us move towards obtaining our own 501.c3 status over the winter months.

[dru_b]

loud thunder was one of the first local rideable areas for me as i entered the "mountain bike" scene way back when i was 16 years old. we went there regularly. i woulx donate time as ONE OF THE CORES and what i feel to be a fairly accomplished trail biilder. count me in....

[Vittetoe761]

I agree with Drew that the outstanding projects at the existing parks should be our priority and we will need to recruit new members/groups to help us do the work if we want to get this thing built in a reasonable amount of time.

That said, should we start a preliminary dialogue with RICO about this project in order to get the ball rolling? I am assuming that it will take time to take care of the political/front end work needed to reach a MOA before we would be allowed to do any digging. We could get that stuff done while the club's labor is focused on the previously mentioned projects at the existing parks. I am willing to head up/help out with this process either now, or at some point down the road if the club does not feel the time is right.

[DH001]

I will be in contact with them but at this point it will be just to let them know we are interested and asking for any tools/data they can provide us to help in the planning phase.

I don't feel we are ready to enter a into a discussion of what we want to do out there yet. We (FORC) need to get together and draw up some preliminary goals/plans and make sure we are all on the same page before that happens.

[jimithng23]

I think it's safe to say, based on the fact that RICO approached Drew about building a hike/bike trails separate from the equestrian trails, that the ball *is* rolling.

Like Drew said, there's a ton of excitement surrounding this opportunity but we need to do our homework to ensure a high quality product.

[Russhole]

I don't think we need to worry much about other projects getting in the way of a new system at LT. Scott County skills park is pretty much out, and they have a core group. SBP also has a TCC that could take care of those needs, and if things progress well at LT, it's possible it could be well under way before we get back to Sylvan. Money and equipment are the major hurdles here. I'm sure people can be found from that area to help work. I am unsure about using Boy Scouts because trail builders should also be riders so lines can be seen. If you don't ride, you wont be able to understand the speed and flow.

[Guldy]

Phenom potential! It would be interesting to know RICO's level of commitment. Advertising Mt Biking - publicly - as part of its activities portfolio? Will allow night, weekend, holiday riding? Will enforce keeping equestrians on separate trails? Enforce trail open/closure?
There are Years of FORC blood/sweat/tears at LTFP already. I know the club is Vastly different than 10 yrs ago, but it'd still be a shame to jump in & dedicate such great FORC resources to later only have Park Mgmt support severely dwindle - again.
I know I know, no guarantees in life. Just cautious questions.

[jimithng23]

Phenom potential! It would be interesting to know RICO's level of commitment. Advertising Mt Biking - publicly - as part of its activities portfolio? Will allow night, weekend, holiday riding? Will enforce keeping equestrians on separate trails? Enforce trail open/closure?
There are Years of FORC blood/sweat/tears at LTFP already. I know the club is Vastly different than 10 yrs ago, but it'd still be a shame to jump in & dedicate such great FORC resources to later only have Park Mgmt support severely dwindle - again.
I know I know, no guarantees in life. Just cautious questions.

I would make sure I would either lead or play a large part in pushing, nearly demanding, for specific terms in the MOA stating management's commitment, as well as the club's.

At this point, they're knocking on our door so we have leverage here.