Need some help with cockpit set up

[Tigris99]

Ok being i have no solid help here (lbs are geared more towards road/touring) looking to see if anyone will be at either scocopa or the party tomorrow that could help me out. Never had any "fitting" done with my bike, current set up is best guess based on reading.

Prior to sunder race bike seemed to ride good but noticed at race steering was crappy, seemed to lack traction in right corners.

So with some digging and such I made adjustments to stem spacers and steering was great but then hard to control at speed on fast flowing sections cause every little movement was rapid response from bike.

I'll bring my spare stems with me, running 640mm bars and 90mm stem till now have a 70mm stem fitted atm yet to ride trails on it though.

Let me know cause i could really use the help cause though I broke 7mph avg at scocopa last time it was a wild ride in the faster sections.

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[SweetSVT99]

Setup an appointment with Anna (acw4red), she has been providing professional bike fitting for a little while now, and well worth her fee!

[DH001]

The tires/suspension are going to have a much greater effect on traction than the stem/handlebar setup. Did you make any changes to tire or shock pressures or damping/rebound settings prior to when you noticed a decrease in traction? Could it be that you were pushing the bike harder during the race and that would explain the feeling of less traction (adrenaline is a helluva drug)? What changes did you make which caused the steering to feel too responsive? Only having problems with right hand corners makes me think it is a body position/skills thing and not an equipment issue. Even more odd, many of the right hand corners in the race course were insloped which should have increased the available traction.

Stem length, stem angle, and spacer height adjust how much the upper body is rotated forward and the positioning of the arms. The optimal torso angle depends on how you ride. A racing position is more forward while a leisure position will be more upright. Stem length also contributes to steering responsiveness (short is faster, long is slower). All of these adjustments, to a small extent, change the center of mass (C.M.) of the body in relation to the bike which will change the weight distribution on the wheels which changes the amount of traction each tire has. However, I wouldn't expect changes in traction to be very, if at all, noticeable when adjusting stem length/height. Getting out of the saddle or shifting forward or backward an inch while cornering will generally overpower any contribution the cockpit setup has on C.M..

Also, you can't expect to change your position on the bike and see instant improvements on the trail. Your mind/body needs a little time to adapt to the new position.

As Steve said, if you want a professional fitting, make an appointment with Anna. She has all the necessary tools and knowledge to do it.

...it was a wild ride in the faster sections.

That's the way it feels until you get used to it. Once you feel comfortable, you want to go faster again.

[jimithng23]

Also, you can't expect to change your position on the bike and see instant improvements on the trail. Your mind/body needs a little time to adapt to the new position.

Also, learning and practicing proper techniques and skills has a large impact on handling speed and traction on the trails.

A few of my favorite websites that teach skills and techniques are www.leelikesbikes.com and www.bikejames.com

[Tigris99]

Only other difference was maybe a couple psi lower in the tires. I didn't think a couple psi tire pressure change would matter much so i assumed it was the 10mm lowering of my stem since it shifted more of my weight over the bars.

Oh between point of noticing steering sucked to last ride when steering was a bit much, I was watching a lot of skills videos....

Any idea how much she charges? Money is a bit tight atm but if i know what I need and its not too much, I can squeeze it out to get myself set up right.


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[DH001]

I doubt a 10mm stem drop would cause those issue. If anything adding a bit of weight to the front tire will increase front wheel traction in a corner. Tire pressure is a big factor in cornering stability. +/-5 psi off of the normal range can feel a lot different. For example, I run my tires in the range of 25-30 psi but when they get down to 20 psi or below the bike gets very loose in the corners. The tires feel like they are "walking" towards the outside of the corner. If the tires are at +35 psi I feel like they are starting to slide out from under me during hard cornering. This is of course dependent on trail conditions and lately the dusty conditions have made corners a little more precarious than usual.

Also, learning and practicing proper techniques and skills has a large impact on handling speed and traction on the trails.

^^^This is where you are going to see the biggest gains.

[Tigris99]

Well got to ride today. Adjusted my saddle posistion (somehow got too far back and my fat butt bent the rails but fixed now)

Besides I need slightly longer bars possibly she rode like she used to, was great on the 70mm stem. Even accidently rode cannon (scp) which kicked my ass but anything I didn't walk through bike did well there and rest of MY ride. Running 640mm bars and felt demanding on my arms (more than normal) to keep wheel under control through rough stuff.


Surprised how much simple things like that can mess up my handling. But even running my bigger tires and not having ridden in 3 weeks I am right on pace with my speed. Thnx for the skills links those helped a lot today too and i came out without going down or hitting anything which is a new record.

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[jimithng23]

640 is awfully narrow. If you can swap to a wider bar you may find the bike's handling smooths out and you gain more control.

Think of it like doing a push-up. What's easier, hands way in or hands spaced at shoulder width?

Being a big dude, this adjustment could be what you need.

[dhoffmanz]

Setup an appointment with Anna (acw4red), she has been providing professional bike fitting for a little while now, and well worth her fee!

About how much does she charge? I might be interested....

[Tigris99]

Well being I can get decent bars cheap enough I'll order up a set in a week or so. I have a longer set now but sweep kills my hands. Now wishing I hadn't cut my current bars so short

How long of bars are ppl getting by with on the trails without hitting things in tight areas? I know 680 is about max before I can't fit through a doorway easily so hoping that would've long enough.

Trying to get "good enough" till after babies born then I can afford to have a proper fitting done and get any parts I need in nicer stuff to get the fit perfect.

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[jimithng23]

There isn't a right or wrong rather, find what's comfortable for you and your riding style.

I remember the day I went to 680...thought the bars were silly wide. Now, I ride 777s. That's silly.

...but it works for me and I like it.

I suggest trying something shoulder width at the least since you were talking about issues with handling. You're a tall dude so I'd imagine a good start would be something around 710 at the widest and 680 at the other end.

[Tigris99]

Actually can do that cause bars I have on now came at like 720 or 740 before i cut them. Which is cool cause $30 for the bars and I can start high and adjust/ride rinse repeat till I get where I want. Tedious but if it gets me where i have no complaints then all good.

Thnx so much for the help. I want to get this figured out so I know how to set up future bikes as well as so i can gain more confidence and speed when I'm out.

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[SweetSVT99]

640 is awfully narrow. If you can swap to a wider bar you may find the bike's handling smooths out and you gain more control.

Think of it like doing a push-up. What's easier, hands way in or hands spaced at shoulder width?

Being a big dude, this adjustment could be what you need.

2.5" tires too narrow, 640mm bars too narrow. Sheesh we've become a bunch of fat biking downhill-bombing freaks.

My XC bikes all have 640mm or less bars. It isn't that narrow for a cross country rig, in fact, I think much wider than that (FOR CROSS COUNTRY) is a bit silly.

[Tigris99]

Hey my 2.2 karmas I'm very happy with thank you, as long as it ain't snow or sand anyway.

And remember I'm 6'2, 270 and broad shouldered anyways . So gotta be fat guy set up.

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[jJohnson]

2.5" tires too narrow, 640mm bars too narrow. Sheesh we've become a bunch of fat biking downhill-bombing freaks.

My XC bikes all have 640mm or less bars. It isn't that narrow for a cross country rig, in fact, I think much wider than that (FOR CROSS COUNTRY) is a bit silly.

Yeah... I was thinking 680 was on the wide side of things. I have some Spank 777s that I cut to 750-ish and they're not even comfortable for me.

[Tigris99]

Well how long of stem u run on xc 29er.

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[jimithng23]

Yeah... I was thinking 680 was on the wide side of things. I have some Spank 777s that I cut to 750-ish and they're not even comfortable for me.

Looking to get rid of those uncomfortable bars?

[DH001]

590mm bar club here. I like my bike a little twitchy and I was having some issues getting hung up on trees before I cut them down. Not sure if that was lack of skill because I was relatively new to riding at the time or bar width related. Probably the former.

[SweetSVT99]

Well how long of stem u run on xc 29er.

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There are too many variables to definitely say you should run any single length. I'm 6'1" with fairly long arms, and on my 19" 29er I have a 90mm stem. It was a combination of being right in the neighborhood of the right size for me, and what I had laying around when I built it. I'm sure I could change it 10mm in either direction and not notice much difference. It seems that 90-100mm is what you most commonly see on XC bikes.

[jimithng23]

general rule of thumb (and, some basic physics tossed in for good measure) is wider the bar, shorter the stem.

wanna run a silly wide bar? it's prolly gonna feel best with a shorter stem.

like the feel of a narrow bar? you'll likely want a longer stem.

in due time, you'll find the combo that works best for you.

[acw4red]

Setup an appointment with Anna (acw4red), she has been providing professional bike fitting for a little while now, and well worth her fee!

Tigris, I look at bike fit through the eyes of a physical therapist based on the needs of your body and the style of riding you want to do. These guys all have great suggestions for the products available. I'd be happy to take a look at your bike cockpit to see if we can make you more comfortable. PM me with questions. Happy riding!

[Tigris99]

Omg, got good use of being off work till 7 due to shut down at plant (too hot to run machines). Learned I can change feel on my wrists and hands by clocking my bars.

So 660s are on and riding doesn't agravate my already irritated wrist/hand. Actually have less pain then I am hole typing this on my phone. Didn't realize way I assumed bars were installed was actually a bit off so my long bars had no upsweep and too much back. Now its a comfy balance.

Can't wait till after Xmas when I can get a fitting done being I am hitting close to sweet spots by pure luck. Means by the time shes's done ill never want to be off my bike except to sleep LOL.



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