talk me down...

**gigantic** · 01-03-2013, 11:12 AM

hey all. I'm 6'8" & 260 pounds & I'm currently riding a heavily modified 2012 Specialized 23" Hardrock disc 29er. (diff. wheels, stem & bar, seat, tires, pegs, converted to 1x8 from 3x7). I've finally gotten the bike modified so that I no longer worry abut it breaking every time I ride it, but I've come to realize that I've begun to reach the limits of what the bike will do in terms of handling. I'm increasingly frustrated with the bike's sluggish steering, especially in tight, technical sections, not to mention the fork's 20-30mm of travel...
So, my plan was to upgrade to a Specialized Carve Expert 23" & convert the Hardrock into a single-speed rigid. Then I caught a bad case of Fat Bike Fever. I've got an irresistible lust for a 22" Surly Pugsley. I want one bad. Now i'm thinking about buying one and in the spring, picking up a Rockshox Recon gold and calling that good.
Pros: fat bikes can go anywhere that a 29er can, and many places they won't: mud, snow sand etc.. They're two wheeled tanks.The Pugsley has excellent components and can run 29er wheels, too. From what I've seen of guys racing them, it's a wash in terms of speed; in fact some people I know, are faster on their fatties. They're fricking fun.

Cons: heavy- I'd have two heavy-ass bikes. with the recon, the Hardrock will absorb bumps better and that should improve the handling significantly, but the rake will still be slack and the steering sluggish. My LBS mechanic thinks I won't even want to look at the 29er after getting the fatty and is urging me to get it. Fwiw, he doesn't have a dog in the fight- my LBS here in Philly sells Specialized, but not Surly. lastly: are fat bikes the new fixes? I'm 42 and for****ssake, a fricking super-clyde: skinny jeans & beards don't work for me.

so, should I go fat, or get the Carve and live with the regret for a season?

**Gunchie** · 01-03-2013, 11:42 AM

Get the Carve. I know all the cool kids are riding fatties, but you're going to enjoy having a better primary bike overall. Changing the fork isn't going to help making the handling better much. A bike with more race like geometry (like the carve) is going to be a lot more responsive.

**jimithng23** · 01-03-2013, 11:57 AM

You are the biggest dude I have ever seen on a bike, and that's not a bad thing!

What that means is you need to not be concerned, EVER, about the weight of the components or the weight of the bike you are riding. Instead, you need to focus on one thing and one thing only - durability. I was telling a few mechanics at a LBS about the time you snapped the rear wheel at GRB last month. One of them went right in about how you needed a Stan's Crest - which happens to be one of the lightest rims in Stan's lineup. That was possibly the most ridiculous thing I ever heard out of the mouth of someone who should know so much better. You should be riding a P35, Salsa Gordo, or at the very least a Stan's Flow EX or something of similar durability and reliability - if you wanna stay on the trail and not hanging out at the LBS, of course.

From there, ask yourself - do I want to be a racer or a recreationer? (<--- is that even a word?) or, maybe you want to do both!

Your answer there should lead you down the path you are destined for.

I will give you my own personal experiences.....I am most recently a fattie owner. The fat bike has brought me back full circle to what riding a bike, to me, is all about - fun and adventure. I have owned: 3 full suspension 26ers, 2 full suspension 29ers, a singlespeed 29er, and a hardtail 29er. Which was the most fun? Well, they have ALL been a blast to ride and own. I'm not sure if it would be fair to say that the latest of the bunch - a 29er fully and a 29er hardtail - are my favorites, because the memories of riding them are freshest in my mind but maybe more of a function of really finding out what I want out of my bikes and the way that I like to ride them...

The Pugsley will take you on adventures you'd never imagine you'd be embarking on with a "regular" bicycle. Of course, "a 29er" or any other bike could be ridden in the same areas we ride our fatties, but at what cost - are the tires, components, frames, etc durable enough to take that kind of beating? Are you having as much fun as the fattie riders or are you working too hard because your tires aren't wide enough to give the same float as the fattie riders? There are all things that I kinda shrugged off pre-fattie. Now, they're luxuries I will no longer wish to be without.

Coming all the way back, I would strongly urge you to go with the Pugsley. I would expect you will have more fun than you can ever remember having on a bicycle. Moreover, I am certain a few other FORC'n fatty riders will speak up as well to back this up. Don't build the Pugs to be light - build it to be STRONG. Build it to be DURABLE. Lastly, build it to be RELIABLE so when you're on an adventure, you know you won't be broken, beat, and scarred, limping back to the car.

Also, keep in mind - a strong and durable hardtail 29er doesn't have to break the bank. Pick up the Pugs and save your pennies and pick one up again if you're so inclined. I've seen some great hardtail 29ers to be had for ~$1000.

That's my thoughts on the matter...I'm excited for your bike-searching journey!

**jimithng23** · 01-03-2013, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Gunchie

Changing the fork isn't going to help making the handling better much.

Upgrading from a stock, low-end OEM fork to a high-end fork from Rock Shox or Fox would be the single biggest upgrade he could make, over upgrading the stock wheelset to a custom set of course. Don't be absurd. ;-)

**gigantic** · 01-03-2013, 12:19 PM

I have upgraded the stock wheel set to a WTB LaserDisc Trail's with Shimano XT hubs. Incredibly, Specialized not only warranted both rims when I got back, but they agreed to upgrade them as well. These aren't the greatest, but they're quite a bit better. I've finally got it sorted where I'm not breaking stuff- the current chain has been going strong since mid november, which is the longest I've had a chain last on this bike. Big props to healthy habits for sorting out my crank/bb and derailleur hanger! Switching to a single chainring should help chain life even more, I hope.
This is all your fault, Forc-ers! it's funny, usually the Quads are 10 years behind what's happening on the coasts, but y'all have a bigger or at least more organized fat bike community than we do here in Philly/SouthJersey/Delaware, despite having more than ten times as many people. Progressive... who'd thunk it?! I'm probably going to do this, dog help me.

**badfish41** · 01-03-2013, 12:33 PM

You will not regret the fat bike purchase. I guarantee it.

**gigantic** · 01-03-2013, 01:13 PM

I'm less worried about regretting the Fat Bike purchase than I am about regretting not purchasing it.

**Gunchie** · 01-03-2013, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by jimithng23

Upgrading from a stock, low-end OEM fork to a high-end fork from Rock Shox or Fox would be the single biggest upgrade he could make, over upgrading the stock wheelset to a custom set of course. Don't be absurd. ;-)

I didn't say it wouldn't be a sufficient upgrade, just that the bike geometry is going to help with making the bike more responsive more than the fork is. My race bike has the same fork as my fullie, but it's a lot more responsive because of the race geometry. The Carve sits between race and recreational so it would be more responsive than what he has, but still a good trail bike. I understand that durability is a concern, and the Carve Expert does come with double walled alloy wheels. It was just featured in Bicycling Mag: http://www.bicycling.com/mountainbik...d-carve-expert. He may not be a racer, but power-to-weight ratio is already against him. Why would he want to drag himself down more with bad rolling resistance? Fat bikes are fun, but I'd buy a good trail bike first, fattie second. But that is coming from the opinion of a racer, so take it for what it's worth.

**gigantic** · 01-03-2013, 01:33 PM

and I did it. Put down a deposit on a '13 yeller 22" pugsley.

**jimithng23** · 01-03-2013, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by gigantic

and I did it. Put down a deposit on a '13 yeller 22" pugsley.

**dgw2jr** · 01-03-2013, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gunchie

Get the Carve. I know all the cool kids are riding fatties, but you're going to enjoy having a better primary bike overall...

This...

Originally Posted by jimithng23

Upgrading from a stock, low-end OEM fork to a high-end fork from Rock Shox or Fox would be the single biggest upgrade he could make, over upgrading the stock wheelset to a custom set of course. Don't be absurd. ;-)

... and this. That SR Suntour XCT 80mm fork with its 28mm stanchions is terrible. I hated mine and even the next step up XCM fork was a noticeable upgrade. A Reba or Fox would be a substantial upgrade indeed. A Reba fork and a set of Flows turned my cheapo Raleigh into a very enjoyable bike that I can ride year round even in the snow and sand. Some Ardent 2.4 tires on a set of P-35s or Gordos would give you some added float on soft surfaces albeit not as much as a fat bike.

I thought my fat bike was the bees knees and I would even admit I may have been a little bit obsessed with it. I could go anywhere and do anything! After a few months the honeymoon phase begins to wind down. The cost of maintenance begins to tear the relationship apart. I reckon owning a fat bike is akin to owning a Volvo.

My bottom bracket lasted 3 months. Luckily a replacement was only 40 bucks. I went through countless tubes which the cost of can add up rather quickly at 7 to 10 bucks a piece. There are ghetto tubeless tutorials on the web but after about 50 posts of failures and issues it turns out not to be the panacea for flats and weight reduction you'd hoped it would be.

Get a flat out on the trail, tubed or tubeless, and you will most likely end up walking. A frame pump takes forever to inflate a fat tire to a pressure that will allow you to ride out cautiously. Planning to carry spare tubes? A fat tire tube is a 6"x4" cylinder. Better have a lot of room in your backpack. You could carry standard 26er or 29er tubes but they scrub through and have a tendency to rupture at the seam near the valve stem. Slit a sidewall on a fat tire and you are out at least 90 bucks if you want a decent tire. You can get cheap Vee Rubber or Origin8 tires that weigh 1800 grams and roll like molasses for ~50 bucks.

When I sold my fat bike I was sad to see it go, but I was relieved at the same time. I've ridden my 29er in all the same places I rode my fat bike, with a slight change in technique of course. I feel the 29er does even better in places where there are big rocks and other things you can't necessarily plow over. The taller, narrower BB has considerably less pedal strikes than my fat bike, which could pedal strike a snail had it been in the way.

The good news is if you fall out of love with your fat bike you can easily sell it for close to what you paid for it since people are lining up for new and used fatties. Then you can put the proceeds toward a very nice fork, a bomb-proof wheelset, a pair of high volume tires, and have enough left over for a six-pack of the finest ale this side of the Atlantic.

**gigantic** · 01-03-2013, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Gunchie

Fat bikes are fun, but I'd buy a good trail bike first, fattie second. But that is coming from the opinion of a racer, so take it for what it's worth.

Meh. I will ultimately enter races, but at my age, 42 and size, I'm not worried about racing for the win; I would be racing to not be last. After 6 years of motorcycle roadracing and mediocre finishes, I'm fine with not setting the racing world on fire, as long as I'm having fun.

**Carve** · 01-03-2013, 02:14 PM

If that fat bike you just ordered knew what was getting ready to mount it the poor bastard would be shaking in the box the whole way to your LBS. Congrats Lance!

**jimithng23** · 01-03-2013, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Carve

If that fat bike you just ordered knew what was getting ready to mount it the poor bastard would be shaking in the box the whole way to your LBS.

no way.

fat bike don't give a sh#t

**gigantic** · 01-03-2013, 02:45 PM

what tires should i use?

**dgw2jr** · 01-03-2013, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by gigantic

what tires should i use?

Nates

**gigantic** · 01-03-2013, 02:48 PM

not the tires named after the best band ever, Hüsker Dü?

**dgw2jr** · 01-03-2013, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by gigantic

not the tires named after the best band ever, Hüsker Dü?

No way. Those dang tires picked up so much random crap on and off the trail. Something about their design causes them to grab a hold of things and not let go, resulting in a catastrophic flat. The tire is still usable even with the quarter inch hole in it though.

**jimithng23** · 01-03-2013, 02:56 PM

lots of options for fattie tires.

my Muk came stock with the 27tpi Nate's front & rear. I'm pretty damn happy with 'em.

one thing you'll find - fat tires are very, VERY susceptible to changes in air pressure. how they ride and feel at 5 psi is completely different from 7 psi.

**dgw2jr** · 01-03-2013, 02:56 PM

I didn't document my issues with the HuDu tire (like 100 year old rusty bolts on Sugar Bottom trail at Sunderbruch

) but others have.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/hus...es-825538.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/sec...nt-777292.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/dea...du-773930.html

**badfish41** · 01-03-2013, 03:27 PM

Congrats Lance. You're going to enjoy that bike for a long time. I've ridden mine quite a bit since I got it in June, and have beat the everloving piss out of it and haven't had an issue aside from the occasional flat that can be changed in a few minutes. I'm loving my Nate/Bud combo this winter. I run tubes, but have several buddies locally riding tubeless without an issue. They claim its fairly easy after trying a few times.

Hope to stomp around with you someday.

Cheers!

**dgw2jr** · 01-03-2013, 03:28 PM

Lance, do you know which rims are spec'd on that Pugsley?

**jimithng23** · 01-03-2013, 03:41 PM