IMBA Chapter Program, is it right for FORC?

[ew_perry]

This is the question our membership is going to decide over the next 3-4 months.

What is the IMBA Chapter Program?

The chapter program is IMBA’s newest initiative to create a unified voice for mountain bikers. Simply put, the mountain bike movement is stronger when local and national organizations work in tandem to create great trail experiences. IMBA has the professional full-time staff, the database capabilities and the institutional knowledge to make an impact, while local clubs have the relationships and (most importantly) the trails. Together, we can increase access and bring more people to the ride!

The Chapter program is based on joint membership; one renewal, one card, one voice. To achieve this, IMBA will handle all the back office processes of joining, reducing administrative burdens and providing chapters with the tools for success.

We are working to schedule a visit from IMBA’s regional director, Hansi Johnson, to discuss why we might want to become a Chapter.

Be involved with this decision by attending meetings, reading the forum and ultimately coming to vote.

[ew_perry]

Some basic information can be found here:

http://www.imba.com/chapter-program

[ew_perry]

Probably the biggest change you would see as an individual member would be how you pay your dues. Instead of paying FORC it would be handled by IMBA. You would go to their website and join as an IMBA member. During the process it would ask what club you would like to be affiliated with. One choice would be QC Friends of Off Road Cycling. IMBA would send 40% of your dollars to FORC.

If you joined at the Basic Family Member of $50. You would receive a pair of IMBA Socks, and membership into both organizations. FORC would receive payment of $20.

[SweetSVT99]

Here are the documents IMBA sent us:

Chapter Program Info and FAQ
http://www.qcforc.org/documents/IMBA...20INFO_FAQ.pdf

Enrollment guide:
http://www.qcforc.org/documents/IMBA...lmentGuide.pdf

Chapter Agreement:
http://www.qcforc.org/documents/IMBA...0Charter_1.pdf

Application:
http://www.qcforc.org/documents/IMBA...PPLICATION.pdf

Chapter Services:
http://www.qcforc.org/documents/IMBA...ine_simple.pdf

Art Requirements for Membership Materials:
http://www.qcforc.org/documents/IMBA...0Materials.pdf

[ew_perry]

What Are The Main Program Components?

IMBA staff will turn the cranks of the membership services machine for participating chapters.
We will conduct print and online campaigns for new membership acquisition and current
membership renewals for your club members. We will also send membership and donation
fulfillment packages — including thank-you letters, benefit offers, membership cards and
premium products.
We provide email, phone and mail customer service support for your members, and bring
professional graphic design services to all of your club materials, ensuring a professional
IMBA/Chapter co-branding of joint communications and services.
In the technology arena, the Chapter Program offers an online, database-driven Constituency
Relationship Manager (CRM). The CRM provides a comprehensive set of software tools for
running a nonprofit club. From the web-based CRM interface, a club administrator may
manage the contact information of individuals, families and organizations, organize those
contacts with groups and tags, track memberships and contributions, run online email
campaigns, and export contact and transaction information for offline communications and
financial reporting.
Services Provided By IMBA
• New member acquisition
• Current member renewals
• Membership thank-you letters and premium fulfillment
• Graphic design and integration services
• Full customer service
Features of the CRM Tool
• Manage your database of individual, family, and organizational contacts
• Organize groups within your database
• Track interactions and sort their relationships
• Track memberships and donations
• Manage communications and email campaigns
Additional Online Tools
• Online donation forms
• Online membership signup/renewal forms
• Member account self-service center
• Club account self-service center

[ew_perry]

1. Rights of Chapter. The Chapter shall have the right to utilize the name of
IMBA in the name of the Chapter, to acknowledge affiliation with IMBA, and to
receive certain benefits granted by IMBA. Benefits may include but are not
limited to;
a) Inclusion with IMBA’s IRS Group Exemption - 501(c)3 Charitable status
b) Website hosting
c) Joint programs and trails projects
d) Joint fundraising campaigns
e) Joint membership campaigns
f) Joint communications
g) Joint events and educational programs
h) Joint sponsorship
i) Pooled purchasing and/or equipment leasing (e.g., insurance, technology,
trail building tools/equipment, training programs, staffing, etc.)
j) Data base and data management
k) Financial management
l) Personnel management and services, e.g., payroll, benefits, employment
tax filings, etc.
m) Organizational development and guidance (e.g., governance, board and
volunteer leadership development, staff development, etc.)

[ew_perry]

Relationship.----- IMBA and the Chapter are not and shall not be considered legal
representatives, or agents of each other. At no time shall either party act or
represent itself to be acting in any of these capacities. Neither IMBA nor the
Chapter shall have the right or power to bind or obligate the other party in any
manner and shall not make, or represent that it has the power to make, any
contract, agreement, representation, warranty or obligation, express or implied,
on behalf of the other Party. Neither IMBA nor the Chapter shall be liable for any
act, error, omission, debt, or other liability or obligation of the other party.

[ew_perry]

So everyone is ready to vote yes on this issue?

[jimithng23]

Perry, you're doing great posting up the facts to help peeps form an opinion but you've yet to state your position on the matter.

[jimithng23]

I just received an email from IMBA indicating that I just became a LAMBA member through their Chapter program. I have a feeling many more FORC'ers with current IMBA memberships will be receiving the same email if they haven't already.

Is the lack of responses simply because we don't think this is important? I know it isn't because everyone agrees with it.....

[Bulette]

I've ridden longer than I've been with FORC, and joined to support the local group that works so hard to open and maintain the trail systems I've ridden for awhile now. As a newbie member, I know it takes a lot more effort to keep this organization up and running than I see from the outside looking in. Even after perusing the IMBA information above, it's difficult to tell just how it would effect me as both a rider, and small-time member of FORC.

In essence, I personally would refrain from adding any input, without seeing some transparent discussion from those who it would effect the most. From what I did manage to take in, if joining IMBA freed even one board member to help organize additional group events and activities, as a rider I would be more than grateful.

[dgw2jr]

My eyes are burned out from reading and writing code all day as it is. Trying to read and interpret the lawyer-speak presented to us above is quite a chore and could be why there is such a lack of responses.

Perhaps if we could get 3 pro one-liners and 3 con one-liners from the board it would make it easier for us to take a solid position on this decision.

Edit: Just re-read the 3rd post by ew, being the change to how payment is made. I guess I'm trying to figure out why the people who do all the trail building and maintenance only get 40% of the membership fees. Are the services that IMBA will provide really worth that much? Now if they plan to help the club with design and construction of new sustainable trails in the area then I can easily understand them getting 60%. I was going to make an analogy between the govt and IMBA but don't want to start a political flame war...

[jimithng23]

Edit: Just re-read the 3rd post by ew, being the change to how payment is made. I guess I'm trying to figure out why the people who do all the trail building and maintenance only get 40% of the membership fees. Are the services that IMBA will provide really worth that much? Now if they plan to help the club with design and construction of new sustainable trails in the area then I can easily understand them getting 60%. I was going to make an analogy between the govt and IMBA but don't want to start a political flame war...

There's SO much more to the program than membership fees. And, trust me, current membership fees are not paying to build or maintain trails.

Chapter gives the club a stronger position to do bigger things - grant applications, land requests, partnerships with local, regional, and national organizations to put on events, build trails, etc.

Going Chapter is about believing this club can do something bigger than we've ever done for MTB and our community in general, and then doing something about it. Bike parks, Epic trail systems, etc....

Where do you see this club in 2 years? 5 years? 10 years?

As I've said numerous times before, this is about a vision and making that vision a reality. I'm 100% for it.

[AG]

I believe I mentioned that we could apply for own 501(c)3 stats which would eliminate the need to use IMBA's . Please tell me more of the plus to this JB, I'm looking for more pros before I vote. Most of the pros Tigris99 posted I do not see as relative enough to mention. I will find it hard to believe IMBA will bring any national event to this area let alone step up and save one of our small trail systems. I would be way different if there was acres and acres of BLM land that we are trying to access.

I am still listening. I have not dismiss this yet.

[dgw2jr]

I will find it hard to believe IMBA will bring any national event to this area let alone step up and save one of our small trail systems. I would be way different if there was acres and acres of BLM land that we are trying to access.

That is an excellent point. Everyone has aspirations to grow and succeed but the problem with growth is that you need room to grow. I just don't see where we could possibly expand around here. There are a handful of state parks/forest preserves in the area but they are small, the terrain is wonky and sensitive, and then there is the problem with shared systems. Anywhere we go, surely the equestrians will follow or they are already there, and IMBA might have our back to keep it bike/hike but in this region of the country horses have priority.

We could build new trails at our existing systems but at some point they will be maxed out. We don't want all the trail systems to look like Sylvan. The other systems environmentally couldn't handle it anyway and the land managers would simply think it ridiculous (if it were me). Our trails are great but we're never going to have a Levis/Copper Harbor/Cuyuna trail system around here. I'm not being a pessimist or a hater, just trying to be realistic about what we are truly capable of achieving.

Even if there wasn't a decision like this being made right now, I would like to know what the clubs 1/5/10 year plans are. How many members do we really want to have? The theoretical maximum would be the entire population of the QC metro area, not possible I know due to prevalent laziness, disease, or just plain lack of interest, but I'm trying to stress the importance of limitations. Has anyone done an analysis of our trail systems total rider capacity? So many questions... Sorry for the ramble

[jimithng23]

I've ridden longer than I've been with FORC, and joined to support the local group that works so hard to open and maintain the trail systems I've ridden for awhile now. As a newbie member, I know it takes a lot more effort to keep this organization up and running than I see from the outside looking in. Even after perusing the IMBA information above, it's difficult to tell just how it would effect me as both a rider, and small-time member of FORC.

In essence, I personally would refrain from adding any input, without seeing some transparent discussion from those who it would effect the most. From what I did manage to take in, if joining IMBA freed even one board member to help organize additional group events and activities, as a rider I would be more than grateful.

This is an awesome and very well thought out response. Thank you very much for providing your input!

I have yet to interject my personal stance on the issue within this thread; I believe my position is pretty well known. However, I *greatly* appreciate the fact that you understand and appreciate the fact that those involved in this excellent club do a ton of work behind the scenes.

It can be difficult at times for me to articulate how important I feel this step is for our club, as Steward of Sunderbruch Park. There are bigger and better things on the horizon and they're right there for the taking if this club wishes to.

I am however, simply one person with one opinion.

Once again, thanks for your response!

[Geek]

Ok so just made a paypal payment to join forc so to jump into this discussion. Ive been riding on your hard work for years. So the higher ups of forc say money isnt an issue, awdsome. Yet in other posts slme have said working again aT LT would cut maintenance too thin. How dlss this merger address this. Does A great organization behind you offer manpower to build the epic tdack?

[DH001]

Ok so just made a paypal payment to join forc so to jump into this discussion. Ive been riding on your hard work for years. So the higher ups of forc say money isnt an issue, awdsome. Yet in other posts slme have said working again aT LT would cut maintenance too thin. How dlss this merger address this. Does A great organization behind you offer manpower to build the epic tdack?

We have two options for building larger systems: do it ourselves or hire a professional to build it for us. 15 miles seems like a minimum for a large system so I would guess we would want at least that much trail. Professional trail runs $15-25k per mile depending on the terrain ($225K-375K for 15 mi of trail [no structures]). To build 15 miles of trail by hand would require at least 7000 hours worth of volunteer labor and many other resources. To put that into perspective, we started building trail at Illiniwek in late 2008 and have invested at least 1600 hours to get a 5 mile system (we incorporated quite a bit of the existing social trail out there into the system which saved us a lot of build time).

Currently we do not have the resources to tackle projects of this scale. We need to grow our membership base (and volunteer labor pool) and increase our revenues to make this type of project a possibility. 501(c)3 status is a must for large projects and I am sure we will need some guidance from those who have done it before. I think the IMBA Chapter program is a step in the right direction.

[DH001]

I don't think going Chapter is going to change the way FORC operates in any visible way and I don't see any disadvantages to doing it.

• I see Chapter freeing up volunteers to work on other more important projects than record keeping and administrative tasks. We will also gain access to tools to better share information with all of our members.
• I see it creating a stronger national voice for MTBers to fight for trail access and preservation which some groups are actively trying (and succeeding) to exclude us from.
• We can use IMBA's 501(c)3 tax exempt status which can save us 5-7% on all purchases due to sales tax. Having this status will make it easier for us to receive large corporate/personal donations because donors can write off donations to a 501(c)3 organization on their taxes. It is also a prerequisite to applying for many federal/state grants.
• Dual membership to both IMBA and FORC for the price of one membership. 40% of membership dues are retained by FORC while 60% go to IMBA for administrative and chapter program expansion costs. Not sure what the price of a membership will be yet, but it would need to be enough for us to continue to cover our clubs insurance policy and basic operating costs.
• Being part of a larger national organization (IMBA) will make our club appear more "legitimate" to those who don't know who we are or what we do. This can be important when dealing with advocacy and land use issues.

That's all I have for now. I will probably think of a few more things.

[Chief Illiniwek]

I don't think going Chapter is going to change the way FORC operates in any visible way and I don't see any disadvantages to doing it.

• I see Chapter freeing up volunteers to work on other more important projects than record keeping and administrative tasks. We will also gain access to tools to better share information with all of our members.
• I see it creating a stronger national voice for MTBers to fight for trail access and preservation which some groups are actively trying (and succeeding) to exclude us from.
• We can use IMBA's 501(c)3 tax exempt status which can save us 5-7% on all purchases due to sales tax. Having this status will make it easier for us to receive large corporate/personal donations because donors can write off donations to a 501(c)3 organization on their taxes. It is also a prerequisite to applying for many federal/state grants.
• Dual membership to both IMBA and FORC for the price of one membership. 40% of membership dues are retained by FORC while 60% go to IMBA for administrative and chapter program expansion costs. Not sure what the price of a membership will be yet, but it would need to be enough for us to continue to cover our clubs insurance policy and basic operating costs.
• Being part of a larger national organization (IMBA) will make our club appear more "legitimate" to those who don't know who we are or what we do. This can be important when dealing with advocacy and land use issues.

That's all I have for now. I will probably think of a few more things.

This all sounds like good stuff! I vote Yes, do it!

JB

[AG]

Here's my view...

According to a membership page on IMBA's site you are giving payment options ranging from 20.00 to 1000.00. For individual and 50.00 to 1000.00. Lets just say we have a bad year (pour turn outs to events due o rain ext...) and the average of 30.00 paid by each 125 members. That's 3750.00 paid in and we only get 1500.00. Now keep in mind our insurance policy is now 1200.00 a year. Not leaving us much.

According to the info provided. There is also a 500.00 enrollment fee. Really? We have to get them more cash?

FORC and ICORR have gotten in the habit of having TT's as a way for membership drives. You have to be a member to be covered under our insurance policy. Can you join multiple chapter clubs? If so isn't IMBA double dipping? I only need 1 IMBA membership.

I can see the advantage of having a 501(c)3. Something we have talked about in the past but the cost out weighed the advantages. Maybe it's time we look into it again before deciding on the chapter program.

Having IMBA manage our membership roster and renewals would be nice. But at a 60% take seems pretty steep.

I realize there other things IMBA has to offer, none of which seems significant to myself.


I'm clearly not sold.

[Chief Illiniwek]

Here's my view...

According to a membership page on IMBA's site you are giving payment options ranging from 20.00 to 1000.00. For individual and 50.00 to 1000.00. Lets just say we have a bad year (pour turn outs to events due o rain ext...) and the average of 30.00 paid by each 125 members. That's 3750.00 paid in and we only get 1500.00. Now keep in mind our insurance policy is now 1200.00 a year. Not leaving us much.

According to the info provided. There is also a 500.00 enrollment fee. Really? We have to get them more cash?

FORC and ICORR have gotten in the habit of having TT's as a way for membership drives. You have to be a member to be covered under our insurance policy. Can you join multiple chapter clubs? If so isn't IMBA double dipping? I only need 1 IMBA membership.

I can see the advantage of having a 501(c)3. Something we have talked about in the past but the cost out weighed the advantages. Maybe it's time we look into it again before deciding on the chapter program.

Having IMBA manage our membership roster and renewals would be nice. But at a 60% take seems pretty steep.

I realize there other things IMBA has to offer, none of which seems significant to myself.


I'm clearly not sold.

One of the most important things to the club just might be that 501(c) 3 as it would open us up to donations that we have not gotten in the past due to the lack of that status. I mean how many times in the past has someone said, hey I want to donate money or what ever to the club but when they found out they couldn't write it off they backed off. How much money and what ever have we lost just for that one reason?

There are always going to be things we don't like, but when you look at the over all picture there are more good things than bad! VOTE YES!

JB

[SweetSVT99]

As far as the "freeing up volunteer time to do other things" is concerned, is that really something that's going to happen? The only thing I see that IMBA provides that has the chances of doing that, is the membership database. Since the majority of our members pay onsite (meetings, parties, TTs, races, etc), someone is still going to have to enter all those. Can we even do that? Is it possible for us to take a membership app onsite and enter it ourselves?

[dgw2jr]

Freeing up resources from mundane administrative tasks and legitimising the club are huge selling points but I'm not sure it's 60% huge. I really want to say yay to this but they are just asking for far too much money IMHO

[Tigris99]

Im a new guy here and hard to really put my opinion in much because im new the whole MTB scene. Im here to show support by helping anyway I can and ride with the awesome ppl I have met (and to meet more) when I hit the trails.

I see pros and cons. Which puts me somewhat in the middle. But I am one that if money is going to be spent, what its going towards is going under a microscope (extra, not NEEDED spending). I spent 2 weeks deciding on the biek I ride right now and 2 months of off and on research to decide I was buying a Trek Marlin. Always have to make sure what I am spending the money on is worth it. IE is it really worth paying $300 more for a bike that weighs 2lbs less? Exaggerated a tad I know but you get the idea. So does the means justify the end???

Heres what im getting outta this:

Pros:
-National Recognition- Bring in national lvl events, events we host could be nationally advertised, be taken more "seriously"
-A louder voice! Those who scream the loudest get results. Better cooperation and better relations with all lvls of govt depts. More power to make sure our trails stay just that, our trails. By that meaning, they belong to the riders, some corporation etc cant come in and decide they want part of the land our trails are on cause we have a national voice that will put up a hellava fight.
-Doors open to more opportunities that can grow the club to lvls far beyond current limits.
-Increase member base for several reasons. More exposure over a wider area, being part of IMBA alone would gain some (few or many, I have NO idea), being part of something bigger that's goal is to enjoy the love of riding and keep it around for younger generations to enjoy.

And I could probably add more too if I thought more, but thats the jist of what I got out of it and kinda my opinion on what comes from it.

Cons:
-The cost is the big one. Seems they want a lot, though they could be offering a lot. Why the cost, read the site they get huge grants, why do clubs need to carry so much of the burden. The clubs expenses are going to be close to as high as a larger club, but income is less because of several reasons. In our case lower population area, we arent located in regions with massive state and national parks that draw in massive numbers of ppl on a regular basis and so on. Not a thing wrong with it (I hate massive crowds hehe) BUt we have to match % of any other club with less income to work with, seems hardly fair. Im not sure clubs expenses, but from the sounds of it, things get by now with bit to spare, if that income is cut by over half, operation is going to be difficult from the time between starting up as a chapter and member base increasing enough to bring income back to current lvl.
-Club officers shouldnt have to increase their load just to have the benefits offered, starts taking the fun away when it becomes another job, trust me I KNOW! which this may NOT be a con, but i dont know being I dont know how they would be effected.

Overall I think it would benefit the club hugely to join, in the long run, but can it be afforded/justified at this point in time??? Besides the membership fee cost and joining fee, what else is it going to asked of the club and more the officers by doing this? Or is it going to require nothing else, things remain roughly the same where workload is concerned, just things done differently? Being as I dont really know much about things now; events,day to day, and so on whatever is decided is going to be what I come to know, and Ill fully support either way.

In my honest opinion, knowing simply what i do right this minute, I would vote yes. BUT, and I stress the BUT, i dont know what goes on day to day behind the scenes and i dont know how joining would effect those that deal with it. I would very strongly ask that all of you speak up about how this would effect YOU. Us base members are much less effected and see more benefit than anything else but DO CARE about what your going to have to deal with cause without the officers and such, club and trails wouldnt be here.