Originally Posted by
bleedfororbea
how deep are the prints? from the pics doesnt look that bad. Nothing more than someone could do with a big rear wheel skid on same trail conditions. lets see some 10 inch deep prints, or some yeti prints that would be some good pics.
Novel Alert- Lots of info- Don't like it? Don't read it.
The problem is that when you ignore the one, the masses follow. We build and maintain a LOT, but we'd rather be riding than fixing puddles!
For the new members- A brief recent history lesson about MY relationship with the equestrians and my experience with FORC- I spent 5/6 years building and maintaining the trails here, both Hike/Bike and the Horse trails for equestrians. I was the single biggest contributor and supporter of equestrians in the park- and that includes the equestrian users. I thought (fool that I was) that if equestrians and hikers/bikers had seperate trails, we could all enjoy them and not endanger each other or tear up each others trail surfaces. I was dead wrong. (Besides the safety factor- the combination of bikes removing vegetation and horses making divots on the same trail makes erosion in midwest soils a serious issue. With seperate trails, ours are bare and packed hard, horses are divoted but the divots help grow more vegetation to hold the soils- less problems for both of us)
So one day I flip out, decide somethings gotta change- Acting as myself and not as a representative of ANY of the many organizations that I belong to, I tossed a shovel full of dried horse poo (that was scooped out of an equestrians trailer onto the parking lot) on an equestrians windshield. This equestrian had returned a 2nd day in a row specifically to ride the bike/hike trails that we had just put over 60 hours of work into- THAT SAME DAY. They were told they were on the wrong trails by a long term FORC member, they ignored her, pretended that the signage was beyond their intelligence level, and kept riding the bike/hike trails. This culmination of standard equestrian respect for my work has resulted in my no longer being a supporter of equestrians in Sunderbruch park. This means nothing to Davenport Parks, and does not change the stance of FORC, it is ONLY MY INDIVIDUAL stance.
The response- Pandimonium ensued- with FORC. (It was weeks before anybody outside of FORC gave a crap, including the equestrian who got the poo) Things were said, insults flew and all heck broke loose. About a month after the fact- A very small group of specific FORC individuals (lead by a guy who was sitting in a lawn chair laughing next to me when I said I was going to toss poo on their windsheild, opened my van, grabbed my shovel, walked across the parking lot, scooped up the poo, waited a few seconds as I considered seeing if the door would open so I could toss it INSIDE the van, and then tossed it on the windshield instead) this group DEMANDED I be kicked out of the club and banned from life, forced to ride clipless, and be generally called bad names forever. (I was ok with everything except the clipless) Others, while condemming the action, thought it was kinda cool that somebody FINALLY did SOMETHING other than sit in a circle of lawn chairs in the parking lot staring at all the horse crap and whining about it.
As usual with FORC, intelligence prevailed over knee jerk idiocy. The small group of individuals spent the last 6 months of 2011 doing everything they could to undermine the most recent administration because they didn't give me the boot, and there are a couple of former friends who I only speak to out of politeness and they, me. That small group of negative individuals is now on the outside of the main, still trying to control everything and scheming with their tight nit click, but mostly the only thing they're accomplishing is making themselves feel more important.
So because of all this, while there is a HUGE group of Mountain Bikers who don't give a rats rear end one way or the other and are enjoying the whole scene, (which is friggin awesome and the way it should be) there is now a VERY SMALL click that was against me being a member ever again- and a much larger, harder working, better riding, better looking and more fun group that invites everyone to everything pretty much no matter what we do- working seperately- All because I handled the equestrian thing badly, and this small group handled the response just as badly. I have apologized to everyone under the sun profusely as instructed to do so by the steward so we can all try to get along, and numerous people have apologized to me for the way the whole mess went down, but the negative click lives on, feeling justified no matter how poorly they treat others, and that's fine, too- they build really good trails when they're not griping about what everyone else has built. Seriously.
Nobody hates anybody, we can all ride and drink a beer together, they know who they are, we know who we are, everyones in a good place and it's working out really well! Heck- Poof doesn't mind hanging around anymore and she was extremely P-O'ed at certain members. (Uh-oh, I broke the "clicks" rules- I'm not allowed to mention that poofy was pissed by the FORC gustapo... I guess the thought police will be deleting this post! NO OFFENSE, but if someone from FORC suggests you choose between your wife and FORC, choose both and let THAT INDIVIDUAL go- it works, trust me.)
The Moral of this history lesson is this- and I cannot stress this enough- While pretty much ALL FORC members understand why we need separate trails, and the majority of the FORC members will support steward approved actions to prevent damage to "our" trails, the vocal minority makes it a real hassle and the steward might be put in a bad spot that could lead to bikers/hikers being seen by Davenport Parks as the ones who are causing conflict- although since we spend more time maintaining the equestrian trails than equestrians, I don't know how that could happen.
The steward has talked to the city and attempted to work with individual equestrians (they don't really have a "group" so it's much harder for them to be organized) and all have said that pics of the trail damage should be posted here, and I/we hope that the illegal use will be addressed one way or the other by the users and the land managers. I know those who have spent years building and maintaing have a huge "sense of ownership", but we are only allowed to build here because we submit proposals, get approvals, and do pretty great work for all park users regardless of their mode of interest. Lets' not mess that up- post here, work with the Steward.
IF YOU MEET A HORSE- whether on "our" trails or "theirs"- Ettiquette is for MTBer's to STOP, take off your helmet and ask the rider if you can talk to the horse. Horses don't recognize you on your bike with your gear, they think you might be a predator. When you stop and step off into the weeds, the horse thinks the predator is now hiding- not good. By taking off your helmet and vocalizing to the rider, the horse has a better chance of recognizing that you are not a threat. No matter how dis-illusioned I am with what my personal experience indicates is more than a few individual equestrians actions- I ALWAYS try to follow these guidelines. Horses are big and powerful animals that have steel plates nailed to their hooves- and you just took your helmet off. Now is not the time to get upset at the crap on the mouthpeice of your waterbottle or that your bike smells like horse crap when you put it in the van with your kids. Stay safe- do the right thing!
Last edited by Vibrato; 12-28-2011 at 10:08 AM.
Believe in yourself? Well sure, of course. But be aware that "believing in myself" has been the root cause of most of my injuries.
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"I feel sorry for people who don't do this." -Badfish41- after bombing the Hermosa's at Levis Trow.
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